AFR instruments

Hey Andre, I can't get any answers from the lazy pricks at Innovate.... so im gonna ask you. Whats the difference between the LM-2 Basic Kit... and the MTX-L... in terms of functionality??.

LM-2 has OBD-II, 4 Analog inputs, RPM input and you can log to SD card (also has 0-5V output). MTX-L is just gauge with 0-5V output.

By the way, now you can upgrade firmware on both to use LSU4.9 lambda sensors

LM-2 is awesome device, but it often freezing up((( Innovate staff does nothing to solve this problem.

Thats the thing, the LM-2 "basic kit" says its "air/fuel only". All i want is to read AFR's. Does the MTX-L use the same sensor and circuitry as the LM-2 for AFR's?

It sounds like Innovate are a bunch of jerks.

I haven't personally used the MTX-L gauge, but I think the question has been covered. The LM2 is a professional portable wideband meter that's perfect for temporary install. I rely heavily on mine for road tuning and with a suction cup mount it's easy and fast to install and remove.

The MTX-L on the other hand is a perfect permanent-fit product that you would leave in the car. I believe that both products use the same control circuitry. The LM2 as mentioned has OBD2 support and can log to an SD card. Both can output a 0-5V analogue voltage to an ECU or other data logger.

If you don't care about seeing the AFR and just want to get it into an ECU for control or logging then I'd consider the LC2 controller. I tested it in our 86 and found it to work exceptionally well and offer great sensor life.

I need to see AFR's in real time... so LC-2 is out of the question.

The LM-2 Basic Kit (AFR only) is $400+. The MTX-L is $230. If the LM-2 uses the same circuitry as MTX-L for AFR... then the LM-2 seems like a total waste of money for what i want... which is just AFR. What you reckon Andre?

Another thing... can i use the simulated-narrowband output from the MTX-L to input into the factory ECU so as to maintain factory closed-loop functionality??

Agreed Marek, for a single permanent install it would be hard to justify the additional cost for the LM2. Yes the simulated narrowbadn outout can be used to keep a factory ECU happy and allow closed loop control to operate normally.

Andre, would i have to program the output (narrow band signal) on the MTX-L?.... or can i just plug it into the ECU using the default factory setting (out of the box)?

Also, if i disconnect the factory O2 sensor from the ECU... will it just revert back to open loop and run fine?... or will it go into some kind of "limp" mode?

Hey Marek, I haven't used the MTX-L yet so I'd have a quick look online for the manual. If it follows normal Innovate philosophy it will have two analogue outputs. One is pre configured as a narrow band simulator and you should be able to just connect this to the ECU narrow band input. The other is a wideband output that you can feed into an aftermarket ECU or data logger for proper wideband AFR data.

What happens when you disconnect the factory narrowband sensor will depend on the age of the car. From my own experience, anything beyond about 2000 will at least throw a CEL. Whether that puts the car into a limp home mode again depends on the manufacturer, however it doesn't seem common - More just a warning.

Hi all... I'm looking to buy an portable car-to-car wideband meter. I have looked into the LM-2 from Innovate prevously and read nothing but bad review - it crashing / freezing and not providing reliable RPM signals. Having watched Andre's road tuning course I saw that he was using one so thought I'd look again, but still nothing but bad reviews.

Are there similarly priced alternatives and what are other people's experiences with this. I've read the other posts here, but it doesn't seem conclusive.

All I can base my opinion on is my own experience with the LM2 which has been excellent. I used one for the best part of the last 5 years and had great reliability from it. It does require a little care as I found that perhaps the connector wasn't up to constant use in a professional environment but if you're a little careful with it it's a greta and well priced product. I've never had the unit freeze on me but to be fair I don't use the OBD2 input for RPM, preferring to input the signal to an ECU or logger. The other 'pro' for me was that the calibration matched perfectly to the Motec PLM fitted to my dyno. This meant if I take a car off the dyno and confirm the tune on the road, I could compare the AFR readings between the two.

The Motec PLM is another option although it's hardly in the same price bracket as the LM2. The NGK AFX is another unit that has been very popular although it's been discontinued and is now being offered by Ballenger Motorsports under the AFR500 name. We received one of these with our Mainline dyno and I wasn't too impressed with it to be honest, reverting instead to installing a Motec PLM.

Hey, Andre, could you provide information about which firmware revision do you have and which sensor partnumber it drives?

Mine LM-2 with 1.18 firmware killed the sensor after 2 weeks of use

Which sensor do you use with the PLM? Bosch or NTK, and which version. What did you not like about the AFR500?

@Dragracer I originally used the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor but had pretty poor sensor life on the dyno - My record was destroying a brand new sensor in 20 minutes :( Average life was probably a couple of months at best. I then went to the NTK sensor and have seen excellent sensor life - I think I got over 12 months out of a single sensor. I haven't used the PLM with the LSU 4.9 so can't comment on sensor life.

I'll need to check the firmware version and come back to you @GRaF_ST205. One sure fire way to kill a sensor quickly is by subjecting it to moisture and this often happens if you're using a tailpipe probe and install the probe when the engine is cold.

When you say moisture, Andre, do you mean moisture when sensor is not in use (atmospheric humidity)... or when in use (hot) ??

Ok, I've bitten the bullet and ordered the LM-2. Seems to be mixed reviews, but a lot of it is about the logging or the data out or the RPM tracing... I just need the AFR so fingers crossed it's ok - and Innovate do a "basic" version which comes with just the leads for that, so a bit cheaper.