how to tune a car with no computer

what tuning system works with a car with no computer

Screwdriver and spanner?

Can you elaborate a bit? You want to tune a car which already has EFI with a handset/tablet/phone rather than a laptop, or it has mechanical injection or carburettor and distributor? Or you want to retrofit fuel injection/programmable ignition to a formerly carburettor/mechanical injection engine?

simple 1965 dodge dart no ecu or computer at all. Distributor, MSD 6a box, currently a slant 6 engine carb no fuel injection, no computer. Does anyone make a system for older cars with no ecu or computer. The only thing I have found so far is a Holley sniper EFI carb .

John

I actually had one of these, a 225, in an AP5 Valiant - they were an Aussie built car also sold in NZ. But being a callow youth I abused it a bit too much and ran a big end, and on-sold it.

Do you want to convert it to electronics, or modify it to improve it's performance - whilst they aren't mutually exclusive, there are going to be limits either way.

The main problem you're going to face is that it's a very old engine, so you're going to have problems finding the contemporary hot rod parts that were available - I believe there are still enthusiast run forums and tuning sites it may be worth checking out. IIRC, there was an Offy' two barrel conversion and, I think, a 4 barrel for a bit more airflow.

Pretty much all the 225s down here had 'extractors' fitted because the OEM manifold rusted badly.

A quick check suggests quite a few options and tuning advice, even a hotrodding guide to the engine on the USoA on-line market - try using "https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=chrysler+225+tuning+parts%3F" and see what catches your eye.

If you want to fit fuel injection pretty much any modern wire in ECU will run it provided you use a compatible timing trigger, ideally crank, but a trigger wheel in the dizzy would work, you could use the original triggering from the dizzy but this provides least accurate timing and would still need a 720 or 360 reset signal for sequential or semi sequential injection. The hard part may be injection manifold that bolts on if you don't want to machine existing or have stuff fabricated to suit.

There was also a kit for these cars from Redline/Webber which was an efi triple side draft injection kit, which I used on a valiant. The computer side was terrible however, and we ended up rewiring a MoTeC M84 in its place to get any form of driveability.

I have a clifford 4 barrel intake and headers So then the holley sniper efi is the only answer to a carbed car.

It would seem so, finding a small enough throttle body - I believe they used the baby 390 carb' - may be more of an issue. The smallest 4 barrel seems to be a 650, which will make it VERY(!) sensitive to small throttle openings - better bet may be a 2300 2 barrel, on an adaptor, which HOLLEY suggest should be good for ~350hp, which is way more than you're going to be able to get N/A from the engine

You should be able to get a toothed disk machined up to bolt to the front, any moderately competent machine shop should be able to do one if you can't purchase it, and if you use a wasted spark configuration you should be OK. Alternatively, if you use a (locked) electronic distributor, you can machine the wheel/cam lobes to leave a single single to give cam position sender to work with the crank 'sender.

toothed disk machined???

There are several retailers doing holley 4 barrel efi throttle bodies, some with mechanically staged primary and secondary pairs for better airflow progression. Again you are certainly not just limited to Sniper products if you don't want to be. Lots of rotary guys using injection throttle bodies in holley pattern from several retailers like E&J amongst others.

For example: https://www.enjautoworks.com/product/enj-8inj-1244-cfm-throttle-body-2/

You need some form if triggering for the ecu, crank mounted target wheel is ideal, something in the dizzy post is acceptable. If you are happy with batch injection and still running spark through the rotor/dizzy cap you can probably make do with mostly what you have and run a single ignition channel and injectors fired all at once.

The Sniper kits look pretty simple to use if you can get an engine specific one or they do triggering compatible with your engine for their ecu.

Just to ask the question are you wanting to fit efi or keep it carb ?

Toothed disc for the crankshaft position sensor to read.

you mean a crank trigger

Ross right now its carb. But I am looking for a tuning set up if that means changing to a sniper efi to be able to tune

I am looking for options for tuning a non computer car. old Mopar

Nope, different things.

It may be because I'm a lot older, but back in the day a "crank trigger" was specifically used to describe an ignition system that used 3 or four (6 or 8 cylinder) magnets, or other trigger method, and an adjustable sensor that triggered the coil to fire. This was a 'drag only' application because the timing could not be adjusted and was used because there could ignificant ignition scatter if triggered from the distributor - this was a big issue with Chev' engines that drove the distibutor and oil pump off the back of the engine, worsened with heavy valve springs that increased the torsional twisting of the camshafts. Later versions provided crude timing modification by adding the ability to delay the actual ignition from the trigger position, usually as a simple 2D option.

The difference is that a toothed crankshaft disc, or wheel, can provide much more accurate information to the ECU on what the actual rotational position of the camshaft is, it doesn't act as a trigger, per se, but as a reference for the ECU to correctly trigger the coil(s) to fire at the correct time.

Interesting I never heard of that part

I thought of them as being 'old school', as I recall them from about 30 years ago, but it seems they're still being used.

If you want to learn more, HOLLEY have this article on them - https://www.holley.com/blog/post/everything_you_need_to_know_about_msd_crank_trigger_systems/

thank you