New 2jz ge vvti build wont catch on first start EMU Black

Hello I have my new build and am trying to start the car with the EMU black. I have tried some different crank fuel times but the engine never catches. I have all idle controls turned off. The dbw throttle body doesn’t shut all the way. I have used test outputs to confirm coil and injectors are on the right cylinders and timing is at 10 btdc with the trigger light. I have put a noid light on to confirm coils. can see fuel pressure drop when I test outputs Could you please see if something is off? I have seen conflicting information about injection phasing and ignition events and am confused about that. Compression 180-165 psi.

Thank you

Your engine is synchronising so it should come down to fuel and spark if the crank angle is right.

have you pulled the plugs to see in case you've flooded them? if not then I'd try adding more fuel to the cranking area

I pulled the plugs. 1256 were dark and sooty. 34 looked new. All were wet. How can i tell if there is enough fuel or too much?

If they're black and sooty and/or wet, there's too much fuel

Have you tried enabling the DBW during cranking? the numbers in the cranking fuel tables seem about normal to me, but usually that's with the blade open some. According to the log DBW pos it 0% during cranking.

My hunch is its flooding quickly with little to no airflow. When you enable idle control there's also a parameter for "DC during cranking". with idle range around 10-12 this is usually like 30%. Your idle range is 5 which might be a bit low for starting.

Ignition and injector outputs look correct provided its wired INJ out 1 = cylinder 1, etc

I have the DBW off because i dont understand how it works. it commands 0% but its open a little bit. I tested outputs to make sure inj1 is wired to cyl1. when you say 10-12 does that mean 10k rpm/with 30% throttle open? i will play with the idle and try to get the dbw to open a bit. should the map drop during cranking? if there wasnt enough air?

the dbw idle range is how much of the entire 0-100% range the ECU allows idle to use. This can change the resolution of your idle map effectively. too low a range and it can have trouble starting in all conditions, but be very precise when the engines warmed up and happy. Too large a range and it can be hard to tame, even with the aid of PID's and idle ignition.

so a 10 idle range allows the idle parameters/table to use 10% of the blade's movement. Last 1JZ DBW car I setup used an idle range of 7 and 82% on cranking, starts cold or warm.

Yes MAP will drop from atmosphere pressure a little bit under cranking, this may not be THE problem but worth getting setup and eliminating it. You can also use the throttle pedal to cut fuel (there's a table for this) which always helps me figure out if there's too much or two little. If its starts to catch with the throttle open and fuel cut, probably had too much fuel. No change means add fuel

Do an auto calibration of the DBW before getting too far. 0% should be blade closed, most DBW TB's sit around 7-12% position when no power is applied to the motor.

Thank you for explaining the idle, it is very clear now. i am still confused on the positioning. the Throttle body is open a little at rest. should that be taught as 0% or should i hold it closed and teach that 0%? i will have to learn how to do that calibration.

i added some idle dbw command percentage and it still wont fire.

ive asked ECU Master what they think. I was told to change the secondary trigger to falling. i had it on rising to get better separation between primary and secondary trigger marks on the scope. can anyone confirm if the trigger lines right on top of each other is bad?

i did the dbw calibration and the ecu now says its at 5.5% resting, so thats cool it knows. the engine now is trying to start at least. its stumbling i haven't found what injector pw match with what dbw % will get it to start. it very cold in the US 0°C

Trigger lines on top of each other is bad, and Falling edge is pretty much always the best choice. More consistent, less chance of false edges.

Add fuel and if it doesn't fire, use accelerator pedal (default it starts to cut fuel at 90% TPS) to remove fuel. So long as the blade is open fueling is usually what gets it to start up. Once you get it the first time it'll feel way easier to do again.

And as Andre suggests, change one thing at a time and make a decent % of change

The triggers line up when it is on falling. so either its on the recommended falling edge and they line up or i can move it to rising to get them to not line up. i can step up fuel for some trials then step up idle dc and start the fuel back over. changing one thing at a time, thank you

The engine stumbles better with some brake cleaner sprayed into it.

if adding fuel (brake cleaner is a fuel) makes it run, then add more fuel in the ecu.

Did you wire this engine? The cam or crank wiring maybe in reverse polarity then if the trigger events are on top of each other. Post a scope log if you can

i wired the engine.

cam and crank are vr sensors. i thought their polarity didnt matter. Scope lines are matched. but ecu master told me falling is the correct setting even if the scope lines match.

cylinder 5 will fire. its the only exhaust getting hot. i changed injectors just cause i have them lying around.

i changed to batch all injectors and let it start without cam sync by using the ignition out while cranking. while its in the cranking state it runs on what i feel like is only 2 cylinders, 5 + 6. i swapped coil 6 with 1 and #1 exhaust started getting hot. as soon as it gets into the afterstart phase and this batch waste setting stops the engine dies. ill put in new coils and see what happens. 90080 19023

i have the engine running on cylinders 1 2 5 6

3 or 4 wont combust. i can see the fuel being sprayed by looking in the intake during cranking.

3 and 4 coils will spark when i use the test outputs and manually trigger them. but when i hold the coil and plug to the head and let the ecu trigger the coil automatically, the coil does not spark.

compression on those is 175. i manually triggered 3 coil while installed and got a loud bang. so it had fuel spark and compression.

so the question is why the ecu wont trigger 3 4 coil automatically?

Polarity does matter. the ECU will read the sensor yes, but the sine wave phasing becomes opposite shape.This is impossible to see on ECUmaster's scope log as it doesn't show a raw wave like say Link does. Swap polarity on the cam and see what the scope looks like.

ok so you've swapped to Yaris/1ZZ coils, are they grounded to the cylinder head? is the ECU grounded to the cylinder head? are all the grounds from the ecu connected and run to the same point on the cylinder head? did you run all new wiring or re-use anything from the factory waste spark wiring?

what changed between it running on 5+6 to 1+2+5+6?

your cranking ign out needs to look like the attached screenshot

Injector size is 440cc in your map, is that correct? IS300 I thought are 250 ish cc/min, what do you have in there?

i changed the cam around and saw no change

the 1zz coils are grounded to the head

ecu is grounded to head (power and ecu ground)

no factory wiring remains. individual COP with trigger from ecu.

5+6 to 1+2+5+6? i batched injectors and waste sparked during cranking.

i changed to the picture attached and it did not have any change still no spark on 3 4.

osidetiger 440cc, during these diagnostics i pulled the FIC 1000cc and swapped. the 440cc were a set of known good injectors, the FIC were new.

this is my problem, only on manual test will the coil fire never while cranking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1BMaoJIisk

for some reason on this emu black. if you have trigger tooth at 10 and trigger angle at 58. the ecu will not trigger ignition event 3 or 6. doesnt matter what firing order you set the events to, those coils will not get the trigger from the ecu. some kind of interference is there at that primary trigger timing. maybe its a software bug. i changed to 9 and 64 and events 3 and 6 started happening. Vs sensors polarity will determine whether you need falling or rising. sync tooth on the log should be 58-57. Runs smooth now. Thank you for helping me.

From Ecu Masters:

This is not a bug. After your information on Output Offset was provided, we calculated what tooth those (2) events will land on. With 10 and 58, (2) events will end up in the primary 35th missing tooth every 360 crank deg which is not possible for an ECU to calculate when to fire those (2) events correctly. The software trigger settings will allow you to make events fire correctly with most any primary trigger.

Since they can detect it, it would be nice if there were an error message (this is a bad choice..., some events may be ignored").

Glad you got it!

That's a wild one. Wonder if V3 software has this trap in it as well. They are pretty pro-active when it comes to adding things like a warnings, but maybe only on V3 firmware.