Tuning with Methanol on additional set of injectors

I have a Huracan that originally had a Motec running a 3rd set of injectors and the stock computer. They used the Motec to control the 3rd set of injectors to compensate for boost. I just recently purchased the actual Motec kit for the Huracan(so I could have actual traction control and antilag) that replaces the 2 stock ECU's and controls the DI and Port injectors. What I am currently wondering is if I tune my 2 Motecs that run the stock DI and bigger port injectors and tune for .8-.75 Lambda underboost can I use the 3rd Motec to do dual fuel with Methanol and then have the 3rd motec and injectors run it to .5-.6 lambda under higher boost? Does anyone see any problems running it this way?

On the face of it, no - as long as the vehicle can mechanically support it without blowing apart.

So here is another question. Say I run .75 lambda at 25# of boost on race gas then have a switch that turns on 3rd set of injectors and brings on the meth to .6 lambda but still at 25# will it make any more power from the cooling or methanol?

Hi Tim,

You'd need to look at how the 3rd set of injectors are installed, is it a completely separate fuel system at the moment?

What you are talking about is a staged injection which has been around for years and how the crossover from DI to your port injection currently works. Would you be looking to switch to 100% methanol or supplementary methanol?

Normally adding in methanol in itself won't see major gains in performance but it will allow extra ignition advance if you are knock limited on just race gas. .

It all depends on the set-up or implementation of the methanol.

I'm getting a little concerned about the health of your engine - is this one you've actually built up and developed, or one you've recently purchased and are experimenting on?

You shouldn't be looking at specific lambdas, as different engines will react differently, and timing and EGTs should definitely be factored in.

It's a fully built motor. I have a dyno at my shop and will be looking at all that.

Tim this is a complicated subject. When injecting multiple fuels the net behavior isn't necessarily the sum or ratio of the parts and requires R&D to optimize. For example spraying a little meth on top of race gas on a forced induction engine system often allows for leaner lambda due to charge cooling, but if you run significant enough proportion of meth to race gas then you end up going in the opposite direction.

Yeah I ran straight meth on another car at what I thought was safe and I could see from the plugs Meth really likes a way richer mix.

This will be incredibly difficult to execute in any kind of consistent and safe method.

The MoTeC kit and UGR/JRR auxiliary kit are completely separate separate firmware. There is no communications between the two different kits.

To target the richer lambda, you are going to need some kind of common wired switch between the two kits to aim for the richer target. With the motec fuel model, this change in aim will automatically add additional fuel through the factory placement di/port injectors.

There will also be no communication for and strategy if the auxiliary fuel supply (methanol) runs out, which is quite likely as there isn't much room in a huracan for more fluid storage, depending on the surge tank/ice box setup already in the car.

I could understand the inclination to try and use to original piggyback system with a plug in kit, however its added complexity and potential disaster for no really good reason.

Most run into issues burning up the teflon seals on the di injectors from cylinder pressure before they run out of fuel injection potential and run DI deletes.

That's good information about DI injectors. I was planning on turning off closed loop strategy on the Huracan specific ECU's and turning on closed loop fuel on the piggyback Motec at 25psi. I just can't figure out what to do with this car. I wanted a Motec car but didn't realize until after I bought it that it just has Motec as a piggyback. Now that I have the real Huracan specific Motecs I can't figure out what to do. Maybe I will just run the Huracan specific Motec until I figure exactly what to do without the piggyback one.

Going without closed loop fueling until 25 psi doesn't sound ideal, and using closed loop fueling to correct for a lack of unified fuel mass calculation also isn't going to have positive results. You want the total fuel mass correctly calculated then distributed between systems, but as Nathan mentioned, that's not happening with your current setup.

For what it's worth, Motec's secondary fuel system works really well. I use it on my GTR to switch between 2 fuels over certain thresholds. Have you considered going that route? You'd need a fuel cell and some additional items of course.