VW Golf tuning - Stand alone or OEM ECU

Morning/Afternoon,

We are at the stage now where we need to make a decision in regards to how we're going to fuel the car and how i'm going to map it. We are looking to make around the 500bhp area and then dial it back. If anyone can give me some feedback or experience to help us decide if standalone or flashing the current ECU would be better that would be greatly appreciated. I'll throw some ideas below to give an insight.

First i'll cover fueling, the plan is to upgrade to the Audi TT-RS in tank pump to supply the HPFP, this will need a control module to flow more Voltage, this also leads me to the next fueling issue. We plan to run staged injection for 2 reasons, 1. The direct injection issues with gumming up around the intake and valves 2. The numbers were chasing. Kinda hoping to keep the intake clean to a certain degree with this setup. Two birds 1 stone and all that.

That then leads me back to the TT-RS pump, i don't really think its going to supply the HPFP and additional injectors so exploring options like replacing that pump idea all together for a bigger pump or adding an additional pump from the tank alongside the TT-RS pump.

Next the ECU, i'll be learning and mapping it myself, in the past i've always gone with a standalone ECU and paid to have it mapped but the majority from what i've seen in tuning, the VAGs have retained the OE ECU and flashed it. Now im not sure how many have actually made the map and flashed it themselves or just bought a generic map and flashed it.

I'm undecided because i'm not sure of the limits regarding the OE ECU, can it run staged injection, can it do functions like anti lag, launch control or flat shift?

If the OE setup can't cope with this can anyone recommend a standalone that covers all of the above and plays nice with VW platform

Thanks

Martin&Jess

Following on from your other post:

The stumbling block will be the staged injection since at least to my knowledge, this can't be done (DI plus PI) off the factory ECU. I imagine that even with custom software patches the required hardware wouldn't exist inside the ECU in terms of port injector drivers. This then gets back to the problem of cost since if you want to integrate with the rest of the car (DSG gearbox, dash cluster etc) then you'll need something that supports the required CAN messaging and will play nicely with the DSG box in terms of torque requests etc. The only product I'm aware of that may fit the bill (will depend on the specifics of your vehicle model and year) would be the Syvecs kit but you've indicated this may be out of your budget. Short of this it may be best to pull back your power target to something that can be supported by the DI injectors only.

As a side note I'm not a VAG specialist so there may be the option to swap in other DI injectors in order to reach your power aim which understandably brings reflashing back as a viable option.

Andre,

thanks for the reply my man really appreciate! I to am out my depth when it comes to the VAG world I'm a Jap and Peugeot man myself but I'm starting to learn a thing or 3 in that they are very easy to work on mechanically and aftermarket parts are very well priced, readily available or interchangeable from the better and more powered models accross the VAG group.

Anyways I've been scouring the far dark corners of the internet, harassed a few people for information from those who've actually made similar powers and turns out that the GM motors such as Vauxhall/Opel and Saab run DI and have some very high flowing injectors that fill the bill perfectly. so it seems all may be looking up and staged won't been needed after all. I've also found the Eurodyne maestro 7 is perfect for my application, it many not quite be the standalone ECU with live data changes I wanted but it allows table corrections like a standalone, has an injector wizard and MAF scaling ect. Chances are you've already played around with this and I'm giving information you already know?

thanks again for the reply and help.

Martin

You can run syvecs for stand alone. Look into the map tuning MPI kit to run both DI and PI. They can tune it via Cobb, and there are other custom reflashers who will tune it via Cobb and I believe HP tuners now.

I think APR used to offer an MPI kit, but Cobb and Eurodyne(maestro) support it on OEM ECU for sure. But this is all for MK6/7.

Mk5 I believe is only support by Eurodyne and Syvecs, but Syvecs is expensive, though powerful.

Hi Martin!

From my experience,the horsepower aim you referred on your first post,can be achieved with 4 DI injector system, depending the hardware you are running.F.e you need ttrs in tank LPFP with additional relay to keep the electrical circuits safe with the extra current of the pump.You need 4 DI injectors from specific Porsche models with the needed mods (not something difficult for a mechanic) and an upgrade HPFP( if we are talking for the tfsi ea113 family engine,the ea888 don't need this upgrade) with a roller kit and a 165bar fuel release valve.

All this can be calibrated with the OEM ECU,with all the features you talked about before (LC,anti,NLS etc) PLUS alpha N to run mafless.

If you want both DI and PI this can be done with parallel ECU too.

In fact you have plenty of ways to achieve your goal and one additional is to change the fueling model in PI only.We have done this too but in this case you have to deal with stand alone ECU that can communicate with CAN bus in order to work properly dsg and stuff.

I hope I helped you

If you need anything feel free to ask

UngluckInc

Thanks for that! I've been looking at this to control the extra 4 injectors any good? I'm going to go with Eurodyne Maestro 7 for the tuning.

Syvecs just isn't happening my man, no way will I pay 3K GBP for an ECU

Mactune

Interesting thanks! So far we have the following in order

TTRS pump & control module

4 GM DI injectors that flow 33% more than RS4 injectors with the same spray pattern as the TFSI

uprated HPFP internals but we haven't changed to roller kit. Is that recommended?

Can you help me with the tuning please it would be grate to tune the port injection in conjunction with the OE ECU I've added a link above of what I was going to use.

I've sored the NLS and LC but not the anti lag help?

In regards to Alpha N the MK5s run on MAF and MAP, would sticking with that no be the better option on can you explain why Alpha N is better so I can have a better understanding

Mactune what "Porsche injectors" are you referring to

scaling those injectors will be the first big hurdle(the gm), if they truly are plug and play.... but yeah...what porsche injectors??

Sorry for the delay!!

The injectors are from porsche 911 turbo 2011-..

They are not plug N play,some light mods are needed,but they work perfect in these engines as they have similar injection angle as the oem.

Another solution with injectors comes from the Opel GT-Insignia OPC.For EA113 some mods are needed and for EA888 you need to change only plugs and nothing else.They are capable of feeding fuel for 500+ depending on the fuel pressure relief valve.

For cars they are running more than stg3,we tune the fuel map based on alpha N because the sensors cannot read accurately the air mass for many reasons like wrong case diameter,flow ange,dust in intake air,signal current etc.

I would think those injectors would be very popular but i have never heard of them being used. but, we also think you greeks are crazy, and love it.

part numbers for said injectors mactune?

always alpha N since maestro can't do true speed density.

i forgot to ask OP, what year is this vehicle?

The Porsche injectors are 9A111012871. For up to 500 HP, the RS3/TTRS injectors should also work (they will be right at the edge though), which are 07K906031L (H revision is also OK, but these are newer, there have been some failures with the H). One option would be to run DI + meth, get some fuel from the meth and it will clean the intake valves.

Regarding port injection, your best bet on a budget is a Microsquirt controller for the port injectors. The 1st generation TTRS/RS3 crowd ran on that until Syvecs released the PNP kit.

very interesting on those injectors.