needing some help

I have a RWD SR20DET with a P11 VE head on it and I am in the process of trying to degree the cams. I have pretty much the exact same setup as the SR20 worked example in the course, Same head, cams, block, degree wheel etc. My issue is once I find true TDC and start to degree the exhaust cam the cam card calls for 59 degrees at 1mm valve lift and watching the video I see when Andre does it, he is 2 degrees off or something reasonable like that. when I do it, I am at like 25 degrees after BBDC or 35 degrees off from where I am supposed to be. I went back and checked base timing with a timing plate I got from Mazworxs and by counting the rollers in between the two marks on the cams like the service manual shows you and my base timing is spot on. all parts are new as far as cams, cam gears, timing chain, chain guides, crank etc. The only thing not new is the rocker arms but even if they were worn it shouldn't be to that extent I wouldn't think? If someone could point me where to look or check to see what I may have done wrong, I would be very grateful.

Some camshafts are times with "zero" lash/valve clearance, others at the normal valve clearance - does the card make mention of which is to be used?

Have you confirmed the engine is set to true TDC?

I'm not familiar with the engine - is it possible to mix the cam sprockets up?

yes, I have confirmed it is set to true TDC with dial indicator and the piston stopper method. The card does give the valve clearance values stating the exhaust valve clearance should be .25mm cold and the intake .20mm and I've confirmed they are set correctly. The cam sprockets are adjustable and as best I can tell are identical to each other. I will take a closer look at them but assuming they are the same or at the very least the exhaust sprocket is on the exhaust cam and intake on the intake cam is there anything else that would cause that to be so far off beside there being a defect with the cam?

Hi Josh, apologies for the delay in replying. This is a pretty weird scenario as you definitely shouldn't be this far out with the cam gears set to zero and the base timing setup correctly so I'm suspicious something is out here. Given that you've obviously watched the VE worked example I assume you've locked the VVL mechanism to the high cam position? This is about the only thing that springs to mind as a potential for the timing to be that far out. Timing the cams at 1.00 mm lift does introduce potential for error if your lash isn't spot on (I know you've checked this but it's worth mentioning), so the other quick sanity check I like to do is to check the cam centre line and compare this to the cam card. You can do this by reading the degree wheel say 1.00 mm from peak lift, and then the same on the closing side - The cam centreline will be halfway between these points. I will note that this isn't exact as often the cam profile will be slightly asymmetric but it should be within a few degrees.

Let us know how you get on here.

you may have just told me what the problem is. Am I understanding correctly that when degreeing the cams I am supposed to lock the rocker arm so that the big center lobe is the one pushing the rocker arm down? I have been checking this with the rocker unlocked or VVL disactivated this whole time. I must have missed that in the worked example or maybe its just common knowledge when working with this cylinder head, this is my first experience with the VVL head so I'm still learning the correct way of doing things. Am I understanding you correctly?

The only service manual I've been able to find for the SR20VE is in Japanese so i have been having to google translate it page by page if I'm trying to reference it. Do you know of a service manual out for the SR20VE in English?

I can't guarantee this as it will depend on the cam manufacturer but I haven't come across a VTEC-style cam (honda or Nissan VVL) that doesn't get timed on the high lift lobe. The factory service manual is probably of little use as with factory cams you don't need to degree them, but rather just utilise the timing marks on the pulleys vs the coloured links on the cam chain. That's fine for the initial assembly but if you're removing/replacing cams subsequently I use the method of counting teeth from the horizontal head surface which it sounds like you've done.

ok great that is probably where I went wrong. The cams I am using are the Kelford 184-ST like you had initially in your car I believe. ok I will go back and check with this new information and ill have to figure out how to lock the rocker arm manually. Since I'm using aftermarket cams I can disregard where is states to set the lash on cylinder 1 different then 2-4 I would assume also correct, and set them all to the cam manufacture's specifications? Thank you very much I have been stressing over this for a few days now.

If they are a Kelford cam then they absolutely get degreed off the high lift lobe. I can't recall now what I did to lock the cam lobes but I think you can use something like a ball bearing or roll pin to hold the hydraulic plunger for #1 cylinder engaged (just don't forget to remove that when you're done!). With aftermarket cams I suggest setting lash to the cam manufacturer's specs.

Ok I went back and used the big lobe and that took care of it finally so thank you very much for the help. I have one last question. When I set the exhaust cam EVO at 59° BBDC at 1mm lift as indicated on the card, the card calls for EVC at 7° ATDC and I am 2 or 3 degrees off that. Is there a way to correct that or is that close enough?

If your EVO is correct and EVC is out then this would usually indicate thqt your lash is not right. I'd double check this to start with and correct as required. Assuming this is correct (which would lead to the next question of why the opening and closing points aren't lining up as expected), with a difference of 2-3 deg I'd be inclined to split the error each way as this should have your centreline correct. Ultimately this is only a base starting point though and I'll always swing the cams on the dyno to assess any potential gains so I'm not overly concerned if I'm +/- 1 degree from the card.

thank you very much for all the help.