4AGE vs 4EFTE

It's 2023 and I'm looking to purchase an engine for a race car build. I have two available to me right now for purchase: 4A-GE and 4E-FTE. Two engines whose legacies I bought love.

I did some research on Google but most of the posts are old and don't say much about built engines. They mostly talk about stock 4A-GE vs stock 4E-FTE.

So I would like to know, for 2023, which engine would be best to build when it comes to power, affordability, parts availability, power-to-cost gains, and any other things you can think of that I may not be aware of.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance

If it's a race car, a lot will depend on the rules for the class. I would suggest working with a professional engine builder who can advise on the options.

What kind of race car are you building?

4a-ge by far is more popular engine. There are still plenty of tunung parts available for that engine in Japan but nithing is cheap these days unless it's a used part.

4e-fte is less known among tuners and less parts are available for it but I've seen some projects up to 300 hp. https://www.drive2.ru/r/toyota/starlet/288230376152007337/

As David said, familiarise yourself with the rules and regulations for the race series, or series', you're interested in.

Then consider what sor of power you expect from the engine, and how you want to gain it, then you can start looking at your options and what's available.

I know you have those two engines currently available, but don't be in too much of a hurry to buy as there may be better options for a few more dollars, if you wait - at least do everything you can to verify they're going to be good cores.

Thanks for your quick responses

@David Furguson It's going to be a drag car that is capable of being street-driven. Power goal is 400 HP. The shell is a Toyota Tercel.

@georg1970 Yes the 4A-GE parts are pricey. Where I'm located people are holding on to these engines like they're gold, and the import duty taxes are high. Amazing little Starlet they've got there.

@Gord Thanks, waiting to get something better is a great idea: 👂 Somebody said K-swap? 😄 But seriously I'm expecting 400 HP. There are no specific rules for our drag racing events in terms of engine spec, power-to-weight ratio, or make. I'll do my best to verify that they are good.

To be honest, The 4A-GE is enticing me because there's so much information available about it, while information on the 4E-FTE is hard to find. To find information on the 4E-FTE that will have to be sorted from local engine builders. My aim is to learn engine building and do some of the work.

By the way, I've seen some not expensive rods for turbo application made by Chinese guys for 4e-fte. We tried the same brand for other projects and they do the jobe fine for just a half of price of common brands (bc, manley, eagle etc).

https://www.maxpeedingrods.com/product/toyota-starlet-80-series-gt-turbo-90-series-glanza-v-1.3l-4e-fte-118mm-connecting-rod-high-performance-4340-en24-h-beam-conrod.html

Forgot to mention before, but the transmission is also a big question point - some variants of that platform have 'interesting' setups with what seems to be quite unique transmissions.

I'd strongly recommend looking at the engine/gearbox assembly as a unit - you need to be sure the combination is compatable, or can be made to be, with the model vehicle you have, and that they, especially the gearbox, can comfortably cope with the demands put on them. There are many potential engine and/or transmission swaps that had to be dropped because the packaging simply didn't work, or making them work was a LOT more hassle and expense than initially thought.

I tune lots of 4EFTE engines and 400bhp reliably is a big ask without serious consideration.

Most people go down the route of using 4AGE parts as they are stronger, the ARP head bolts off the shelf for the 4EFTE won't cope, so modifying a set of 4AGE studs is the route to go down.

Head gaskets are a known issue due to the spacing of the head studs to the bores, Cometic ones currently are the go-to, avoid Athena

You are limited in your rpm range because it's been proven that the oil pump will cavitate over 8500rpm.

Transmission, I have a customer who modified a E153 LSD gearbox to fit his 4EFTE, plenty strong enough to take the abuse the little engine can give it but the ratios were hit or miss, shift right and it was awesome, miss your shift and the lag needs some encouragement (N20 helps here)

Fuel choice is really key, alcohol will help massively, which is where head flow comes into it.

The F in the engine code means that it is designed for fuel efficiency, the ports and cams will need work. The cams are scissor-geared so adjustment is difficult, I found someone who made an adjustable gear for the inlet but have yet to test it, adjustable exhaust cam gears are easy to find. Uprated valves need some work, there are people who have used the 7MGTE and 4AGE valves, they are a larger diameter and taller but will require a collet groove cut in. Valve springs and titanium retainers are now available from a company in Australia.

The 4AGE engine has a lot more options but if you are after a project/ challenge then the 4EFTE engine is a really basic one to work on.

Sorry about my late response guys

@georg1970 Thanks for the suggestion. Watched a video by Driving for Answers on YouTube about the Maxpeedingrods conrods and good qualities. Gotta love affordable goodies.

@Gorg Thanks, I'll try to ensure I source a bell housing for either engine. From what I was told by a local engine builder, the internals for the gearboxes for the Vitz, Starlet, and Levin are the same, but the bell housing bolt-up are different.

@Chris250 I appreciate the knowledge man.

- So I've heard that the 4A-GE oil pumps cavitate. Are you indicating that 4E-FE oil pumps cavitate as well?

- Would be nice to eventually get a 3S gearbox, but they are rare and costly. From observation of a 2ZZ-swapped Vitz with a Starlet gearbox, the Starlet gearboxes seem to can't manage a certain power level, especially their second gear. Just an observation.

This makes the 4E-FTE sound like a little project to work on and improve over time

My naturally aspirated 4AGE made 235BHP and 147FTLB (UK spec dyno figures) on UK spec pump fuel. It is a very antiquated design and unless you need to use something like this I would seriously look at something more modern and ideally with a larger capacity.

To give you an idea, I was building a naturally aspirated ali block Cosworth YB to replace it. More power, more torque, less stressed, more reliable, similar weight.

Okay I'll consider looking into other engines, should they fit within the budget.

How's that Cosworth YB coming along?

FORGET THE YB completelly out of a price range , if you are comming up in tech , something with variable cam timing , any single cam honda is capable of 800 but a 4e will never see it , but a 4age can and more , go with the 4age , the 4efe can be done , we did over 516hp in the 5e near 20yrs ago , but it costs , a 4agze bottom end , will do 400bhp done right , and did 20yrs ago , thats all stock toyota parts

Oh! 800 HP on a single cam? D-series or the R-series?

And thanks for the advice. Considering a 1NZ though as the shell is Toyota and the 1NZ's drop right in