e85 4g63T DSM Road tuning max ignition advance

Hi, what would you say to be a safe number for a 4g63t with a stock long block to be a safe number for ignition advance?

Since i will be using ethanol e85 my knock sensor won't give a real representation when tuning on the road.

Still working on access to a dyno but since i'm learning and local tuners won't let me buy some dyno time without them tuning the car i'm currently stuck with Road/Track tuning.

There's very little chance you will encounter knock on E85 so 'safe' isn't really your issue. More to the point is achieving MBT which is going to be tricky if you're not using a dyno. The other aspect is that MBT timing is going to depend on the turbo, the boost pressure and the rpm so it's a constantly moving target. For an example with a turbo like a GT3582 at 1.5 bar/22 psi, I'd expect to be in the high teens or low 20's around peak torque and then mid 20's by redline.

Thanks for a great answer.

As you say it will be more or less unobtainable to achieve MBT on the road.

Well i'm gonna get it to run fairly good on the road and then i will bite the dust back and pay a tuner to tune it since the won't let me pay to do it myself xD

*EDIT*

Attached screenshot of VE, Lambda and Ign tables - Tried to attach Mtune file but upload function would not allow it.

Set up as follow.

1200cc Bosch injectors @ 3 bar FP - yeah too big but what i had laying around the shop for now.

TD05-18G

Custom plenum

VRSF FMIC

Mishimoto Alu Radiator.

VAG R8 COP running wasted spark