LS3 Initial Tune Help

Hello i have a 2014 Maloo LS3 NA. have recently upgrade cam and headers, full 3 in exhaust, new heads etc. car has only done 40000kms

engine details:

- LS3 NA

- 6L80 with 2800 Stall and valve body upgraded with Sonnax kit and other Sonnax improvements.

- OTR Mafless setup VCM with air intake IAT patch cable to OEM Maf harness plug

- Comp Cams, 291/311 advertised duration

- upstream and downstream o2 sensors installed

The ECU was bench tuned by a reputable tuner in Brisbane. The only thing he did not do was tune for Mafless/speed density as it was flashed prior to OTR installed.

i ama a mechanic of 30 years but i have never tuned an ecu before.

I have HP tuners now and i followed the "Reflash Video" by HPAcademy and checked and made relevant changes to a speed density Mafless tune!

After the initial tune on the ECM by the tuner the vehicle would not start without full throttle to disable injectors and was running extremely rich!

Engine would rev fine and then stall out.

After i reflashed using HPAcademy tutorial the engine would start without throttle but mostly stall when throttle applied as if it wasnt gettin enough fuel now

Maloostock - Tuners Tune (Not factory, speed density tune i dont know)

Maloostocknew - my reflashed tune to speed density (mafless)

I had the car booked in to be flashed/dyno tuned but couldnt get vehicle to run so had to cancel. Dont want to trailer as would rather have it running so i can carry out all engine/mechanical tests after engine work has been completed!

I didnt want to go to this extent and purchase tuning software but it seemed a logical option and it will be reused for other projects in the future !

Welcome! Proper idle with a decent size cam does take some work. Did you watch the cammed engine worked example as well? That has some specific info which will help.

Did you have any specific questions in the meantime?

Thanks Mike ECM has been setup for the camshaft specs by a reputable tuner who specialises in LS engines.

if someone could look at my maloostocknew.hpt file and determine if all of the parameters are accurate and outline any errors or incorrect parameters that would be much appreciated

Hey mate,

I am not a tuner by any means, I had a look over the tune files and I can see discrepancies in the main VE tables between tunes.

I can see the values in the IMRC open table in the stock tune have been increased/ decreased compared to the IMRC closed table and what appears to be the changes made by the tuner to suit the cam, however the values from the Stock tune haven’t been copied into the IMRC open table in the StockNew tune file. As far I am aware the LS ECM will reference the IMRC open table for fuelling. I have an L98 and it only has the IMRC open table tuned and has been mint for years now.

I also notice in the scanner log file there isn’t any channel showing the airflow/ MAP pressure, but that’s possibly just the channel not being logged in the scanner.

as I said I’m not a professional in anyway but thought this may help.

regards,

Corey

thanks Corey

yes if you see Maloostocknew i made this change so all VE tables are the same

Just to confirm the Maloostock file is actually the tuners file after initial tuning not the factory file

the Maloostocknew is my attempt after changing to speed density based on HPAcademy videos etc

yes the Map not referenced in that video but it is in later videos where i added channel

thanks Justin

Hey mate,

Yeah that’s how I understood it, that the stock file was the tuners flashed on before the change to speed density system.

but yeah I think making the VE tables from the “STOCK” tune match the “STOCKNEW” tune is definitely a start. Unless you’ve made changes since posting this, the IMRC open table from the “stock” tune doesn’t match the same table in the “STOCKNEW” tune after you’ve done the speed density change.

nothing else really stuck out as a potential issue to me other than making sure the MAP sensor is reading when logging and there isn’t an issue there because I do know they don’t like running with no MAP sensor!.

regards,

Corey

are you saying the IMRC Open from the initial tune should be in my reflashed tune i see i copied the closed VE table to all the tables not the open table?!

thanks

Yeah mate you’ve copied the IMRC closed table, but not the IMRC open table and the open table is likely to be the table the tuner has changed to suit cam.

just changed as per then tuners and yes made a difference. starts easy now and i can rev without stalling.

HPAcadmey tutorial said all 3 tables should match in speed density tune !?

is it normal in speed density for the Short/Long term fuel trims to show negative figures when in CL-normal

When vehicle starts Ecm is in OL - not ready

after throttle it changes to Closed Loop and seems to stay there

Also at idle i have up to 25 deg Advance and up to 45@3K rpm - is this normal

Also is there a channel for "Air-Fuel Actual ratio"

video post

Yeah I understand that advising of all 3 tables matching is more of a good practice thing, as some vehicles may reference all tables however as an LS series engine doesn't come with a variable intake runner it only appears to reference the one table so it seems tuners only make changes to the table it is using to control fuelling.

- negative values when in closed loop (CL) just mean that the ECU is having to remove fuel to achieve the target AFR

- when first starting, particularly a cold engine the o2 sensors have to heat up before they are "ready" and the ecu moves into closed loop mode which the ecu will always be in closed loop at idle and low load/ cruising once heated unless set otherwise

- the ignition timing does seem high at idle it though it could be what the tuner has done to get it to idle with the cam , looking at the data log the timing at 3k is as you have lifted off the throttle and the engine is returning to idle so although it seems high its not when under load so probably no overly excessive.

realistically the tune won't be very refined to suit your car unless the tuner has had that tune from an identical setup previously.

you wont get an actual AFR/ lambda reading without having a wideband sensor wired into the logger or at least a wideband sensor and gauge.

thanks so much Corey very helpful!

i believe the O2 sensors have been deactivated in the ECM settings but i am not sure, can you see this in the scanner graph where there is no measurement or do i need to turn on these 2 channels?

cheers Corey

hello HP academy

could anyone review my latest files

i believe the speed density mafless tune is working, Car idles but not well still running rich and lots of timing possibly to much?!

i tried relearning 6L80 shifting R to D, P to D, N to D etc as per re3learn procedure as the fastg relearn etc doesnt do anything in HPTuners

if someone could look at the tune and scanner file that would be really appreciated?!

the main issue is car will go from Park to R ok.

it will stall going from D or R into N or P. looks as if the spark advance drops out i am unsure.

sometimes it will not move in D after R but will engage if restart in N and into D.

i have changed parameters as per Andres settings in tutorial for Cam tuning and 6L80 tuning

Thanks Justin

Justin,

Here are a few suggestions:

I'd get your SD table dialed in so the PCM isn't pulling 17-20% fuel as that can cause a lean condition soon as you transition out of that area, which can stall the engine or at least make it stumble significantly.

Next you're over your idle speed target and ignition timing is wound down to 0 degrees, so your base idle airflow is beyond what's required to hit your idle speed target. Reducing that will get the systems back in their control range so they can help you out and actually hit your idle speed targets. As you do so, idle may oscillate and require more work, so I understand it can be tempting to force so much airflow that it avoids stalling.

I would also increase your target idle speed to the idle speed the engine has been operating at. Again, that allows the control system to better handle things. You can set this independently for neutral and drive, so you can set the drive RPM target a bit higher which is sometimes required.

I would add current gear to future logs for context, and airflow as well so you can see the discrepancy between idle desired airflow and airflow.

Also I see you've zeroed the TCC desired slip tables. You might try reverting that, and then you can always blend them to zero values at higher turbine speeds as you get away from idle.

HPA also has this webinar with some additional info in case you haven't seen it:

https://www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/217-idle-tuning-hp-tuners-gmhp-tuners/

I hope some of this helps and please keep us posted!

thanks for the analysis Mike!

could you possibly direct me to the exact Tabs in VCM Editor i need to change

what is procedure to get SD table dialed in so not pulling 17-20% fuel (is this STFT you are referring to as fuel?

I have lowered Idle RPM Base Table is this the only table i should adjust?

Where is timing at zero degrees and how do i change this?

you said next increase target idle speed (is this the same table base setpoint as you stated above or a different table)

which specific airflow channel do you suggest ?

thanks agin

Justin

i am doing a mafless tune so is the Mass Airflow sensor channel still relevant as you suggested in the scanner

Justin,

The main SD VE tables are in General - > Airflow. I'd have a look at the worked example for "1 bar speed density OS".

Idle -> Airflow -> base running airflow -> airflow final minimum look like it may be a bit high at low RPM so that could make the airflow floor too high.

In that tab you will also find tables for Transmission shift airflow. The Drive Transition is from park/neutral into gear which you've said is your area of greatest concern, so that may be of use to you.

Ignition timing is part of the idle control strategy so when you see it "stuck" very low, it's usually because airflow is excessive and the ECU has bottomed timing out to do anything it can to reduce engine torque to get idle speed closer to target. Once airflow is within a reasonable range of what the engine needs, you'll see the timing start dancing around to help stabilize idle.

Your engine is idling higher than the 850 RPM target in the idle base setpoint table. The log shows operation in the 900-1200 RPM range, so I'd set your actual target to 1050 perhaps, and see if you can stabilize it there. If you have success, but want to idle lower, then try working your way back down in small increments. With an aggressive enough cam or heads/cam setup, you may need that engine speed to allow the engine to move enough airflow to keep engine torque output more stable.

Because of the way HPT works I can't see the list of parameters available on your vehicle so I don't want to lead you astray, but because you've failed out the MAF system to run SD, Mass Airflow (SAE) is reading 0 all the time in your log. What you can likely log is cylinder airmass, but see what's available to you.

hello

here is a further scan file after making idle parameter changes and airflow changes

if there is anyone whom has any ideas what i need to look at that would be really appreciated!

symptoms still remaining

- stalls going from P or N into any gear

- revs higher in any gear than in P or N

-stalling after driving and warm in Gear and also P or N after blipping throttle

-Stuck in 2ND gear only when driving

thanks again

Justin

Justin can you clarify "Stuck in 2ND gear only when driving" ?

TCM/transmission issues can certainly impact what the engine is doing.

You have the rev limit set to 5000 RPM at 0 MPH.

second gear Limp Mode when driving forward wont select 1st with tap up tap down shift or in drive wont change gears. only 2nd

how would revs @5000 @0MPH effect anything at idlez/

thanks

i sent a scan file for reference Mike

second gear Limp Mode when driving forward wont select 1st with tap up tap down shift or in drive wont change gears. only 2nd

how would revs @5000 @0MPH effect anything at idlez/

thanks

i sent a scan file for reference Mike

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying Justin. You said the engine revs higher in gear than it does in park or neutral, so I let you know the rev limit is lower in park, neutral.

If your transmission is in a failure state, that needs fixed first. In a fail state nothing works as usual so you'll be chasing your tail til it's resolved. Once that's settled, things will likely go more smoothly.

How do I get transmission out of limp mode?

no codes for transmission just needs programming I believe. 6L80E

I tried doing the R to D 20 times which is the routine everyone reccomends

no throttle allowed

when I do N to D and N to R 20 times which is the learn procedure I have to use throttle in N which apparently voids the learn procedure as can wants to still stall in N and P

Ignoring all the above can you see anything unusual in the tune file and scan I sent?

thanks

Justin

When the transmission is unable to function, but isn't throwing codes, my first thought is perhaps this is a swap, or perhaps you're using a control unit meant for another transmission, perhaps codes have been disabled so errors aren't being reported?

Please tell us about the vehicle year/model/original trim and transmission, current transmission, and where the PCM/TCM came from.

Please also confirm no DTCs have been disabled.

On the mechanical side, I would also check to verify the shifter cable is properly adjusted and the shifter used is providing the proper throw to each position.

Sorry none of the above

- not a swap

-2014 maloo Ute LS3

- no codes diasbled

- transmission has been removed and a new torque convertor put in

- not a mechanical problem it’s selecting gears

- it’s a big case stated at start of post

- engine all mechanically tested

- not a gear selector mechanical issue

TCM setting, LIMP mode

no one can help?